"Do any of you notice a distinctive smell before one of your birds lays an egg? (I know, "What a freak") I have several females and whenever I smell this smell, there is either an egg or one shortly after. This has been going on for some time, and by the way, my cages are clean. Please tell me everyone experiences this." [Lori]
- you might not be as crazy as you think. Have you ever noticed, just prior to laying an egg and while setting on the nest the consistency, size and color of the poop usually changes. The odor also changes. I haven't specifically noticed the odor with my doves or pigeons because they are in a colony in a large flight; however, I notice it, including the odor, with my parrots. [Helen]
- My young birds start exhibiting the rolling behavior as soon as they start flying. First by doing "stalls", as I think Jeff mentioned, and then, usually around their 3rd or 4th flight, by actually completing a backwards flip. From there they continue to refine their ability as they spend more time in the air. Although I don't know the actual reason for this behavior, I have noticed that hunger will cause them to exhibit it more frequently. Miss a feeding and watch your birds! Also an old breeder who had birds capable of !00' drops once told me that peas would make them fly like homers instead of rollers and that I should give my birds a diet without them. I thought that, regardless of his lifetime in the roller fancy that he was "full of it" but gave it a shot anyway. You may think that I'm crazy also but I'll now swear by this. Maybe this has been mentioned/varified on one of the roller lists/groups? Most pigeon grain mixes contain whole corn, wheat, milo and peas. Chicken scratch contains cracked corn, (which they don't like to accept initually, but will), milo and wheat so anyone who would like to see, give it a try. My rolldowns seem to come from breeding the very best "longrollers" together. What happens to them is usually that they are killed when they hit. Some are lucky and make it, depending on the height and what they hit but those are the ones that never roll again and in some cases never fly either for a rolldown will always be a rolldown and unless it's been too scared or injured to try it again it will surely meet the ground in a bad way. I have one bird that has done rolldowns on three accounts that I know of and has made it. These were from about 20' and he hit solid ground each time. Each time he would walk around in circles for days, sometimes weeks. After the last time he quit flying, besides to the roof and his nestbox, and that is probably why he is still alive. He is still fertile and produces very nice offspring. When you watch one of your good long rolling birds perform, it starts out with your heart pumping and you thinking, "WOW" look at that, but as he gets closer to the ground your heart starts moving up into your throat
and you begin praying, "PLEASE" open up in time! What I do is try not to breed for them as even if you're a selfish enough person to not care about the bird's life, it's only a ONE TIME show!!! Would sincerely like to hear about the Birmingham/Pensom issue if you'd elaborate on it a little for me.Monte.- I sell young unsexed doves when there close to 4 mos old, I know for sure by that age that they are healthy and in good feather. RON IN TOLEDO
- About the doves -- with protection from direct sun and the elements they will do just fine outside. Just make sure part of the cage is covered so they have a place to get out from the sun, the wind and the rain.
- are they closed bands? If so, pull the three main toes forward,
leaving the little back toe toward the back. Put the band over the three
forward facing toes and pull over the backward toe, up the leg -- don't pull
up over the knee, though -- I use a toothpick to get in between the leg and
the backward facing toe to pull it thru the band.If the babies are too old and are already standing, it is probably not
possible to manipulate the toes to get a closed band on.....that is the
security in a closed band. After about 10-14 days you cannot get one on so
it is an indicator for record-keeping.Helen- the reds have problems with their
heads; tilting to one side. The pair I have are excellent! In fact the male
is courting the hen and the hen has laid. I don't have them set up for
nesting, but she has laid on the floor of the cage.Have you ever had a problem like this. I'm going to have him return these
reds to me and I of course will give him back his pieds.- Over the past two weeks, list members submitted the following breeds as
doves that do well in unheated outdoor lofts in the colder northern &
midwest US climates during winter: European Turtle, Ringneck, Bronze
Winged, Triangular Spotted, Dwarf Turtle, Mourning, Senegal, Australian
Crested and Lacenecks. I might add that I had one silky cock that was in
my unheated loft over two winters and did well. Ron in Chardon, Ohio.- White Racing Pigeons are used by professional release people for weddings and
special occassions. The trouble comes when people who don't know anything
about birds try to do things themselves. I have been flying white racers for
many years and they do come home. You may loose some every so often to the
hawks, but that is a natural thing, and I personally, never fly releases when
the hawks are migrating or in the area. That is why I only fly in certain
months of the year. I have some very old birds that have been around for a
long time. Actual ringneck doves or diamonds are only used in display cases
and never released.Dina- There are several interesting things here that I have not seen mentioned
since i Joined the list.http://www.pigeon.org/vet99-2.htm- Chlorine: http://www.pigeon.org/novvet.htm
- There are basically 3 types of legbands you can consider using. The
seamless aluminum bands come with the year and consecutive numbers.
Example: ADA 00 2866; ADA=American Dove Asso, 00=Year 2000 and 2866 is
the number of that bird. These must be applied between 5-7 days old and
they identify the bird for life. You can keep a log in your computer
referencing the band numbers with info such as when it was born, color,
sex, cross-ref other band numbers to ID it's birth sibling, etc. Next is
the plastic wrap-around band. It comes in various colors with no numbers.
It unwraps and can be applied at any age. Some people pick a color they
like, say red. They put the band on the right leg to ID males and the
left leg to ID females. I purchase these in two colors, blue & pink. I
use the blue to ID males & pink to ID females. Last is a colored plastic
snap-on band that comes in sets of 2 with the same number to ID siblings.
They open like a hinge and just snap closed over the leg. All bands are
cheap. Stay away from the spiral plastic coated wire bands. They bend
easily and can severely injure (even cause amputation) of a birds foot. I
speak from personal experience. To keep this post from not being too
long, I will post the names of band companies in a separate post. Ron -
Chardon, Ohio.- (1) American Dove Association - You can find their website on the
internet. Not required to be a member to get their bands. (2) L&M Bird
Leg Bands, P.O. Box 2943, San Bernardino, CA 92406, Tel. (909) 882-4649,
FAX: (909) 882-5231. (3) Foy's Pigeon Supplies, P.O. Box 27166, Golden
Valley, MN 55427-0166, Tel. (612) 537-4242, FAX: (612) 537-1019. (4)
J.E.D.D.'s, 1165 North Red Gum, Anaheim, CA 92806, Tel. (714) 630-5921,
FAX: (714) 630-5264, Email: (address is not in brackets)
<dickricker@earthlink.net>, website: www.pigeonrace.com. (no period after
com). Ron in Chardon, Ohio.
- Rather than type a lengthy list, in the search mode on the internet,
search under 3 different sets of words: (1) American Dove Association,
(2) Racing Pigeons, (3) Fancy Pigeons. These searches will bring you
volumes of organizations on doves, racing pigeons and show pigeons. Keep
in mind that the only absolutely certain breed that you can freefly and
will return to the loft are Homing Pigeons. Other breeds such as Rollers
& Tumblers will return to the loft after flying but they can be 'swept
away' by winds aloft and an entire flock (called a kit) can be
permanently lost. Your vaious show birds will generally not fly any
further than from your loft to the garage roof but they are easily taken
by birds of prey & other predators. Although there are a few exceptions
for Ringneck doves, you generally cannot freefly them without loosing
them to predators or just getting lost. You didn't say where you would be
housing your birds but protection from the elements and drafts is a must.
If you have specific questions I am sure this list will provide answers.
Ron in Chardon, Ohio.
- http://www.diamonddove.com/DiamondDoveSong.html
Follow this link to an article I wrote on the songs of the Diamond Dove. I
hope it helps. Any questions after reading it and I will love to discuss
them with you.Jeff- What kind of calls and sounds do Diamond Doves make and what do they
> mean? I've been listening to my new pair of regular diamond doves to
> try to understand what they are thinking.
>
> I've heard 5 note (longlonglongshortlong), 2 note (longlong), and 1
> note (long) calls that sound like a dog's whimpering, that usually
> come from my male.These sound like to conversational calls between mates, nest location calls,
checking interest calls.> My female usually makes 1 or 2 note raspy noises
> that sound in between a pidgeon's coo and a crow's caw. Sometimes the
> female's call with start off raspy but quickly become the whimpering
> dog noise (kind of like when a person's voice comes out croaky or
> cracks). My male can also make the raspy sound but rarely does it.Raspy is usually alarm and/or frustration calls. They are startled, scared
or just didn't get what they wanted.> Do
> they have different voices or do they just choose to make different
> calls?Yes, they do have different voices and the voices can change as they mature.> Lately both of them have mostly been making soft, short, repeated
> "bokbokbok" noises like chicken do.Trying to get each other worked up to nest building, mating and raising
kids, maybe.Jeff
This list is, itself, probably the greatest resource you can find. There
are many very knowledgeable, helpful, and generous (and witty) people here,
several of whom have websites packed with info. The archives of this list
also contain pictures, info, and even calls if I remember correctly. Dr.
Miller's new website at www.concannon.net/wilmer would be very useful,
especially from a genetic standpoint, and as I said there are other webpages
here that are also very educational. You will probably also want to contact
the American Dove Association at www.doveline.com.
Jody
- Since this is an info sharing list about doves, I thought it would be a
good thread to start where we inform one another of where to write to get
free or reasonably priced writings about all types of doves. Most state
divisions of wildlife have something to offer if you look up your state's
website. I'll start with: Request the free pamphlet MOURNING DOVE IN OHIO
by writing to Ohio Division of Wildlife, 1840 Belcher Dr., Columbus, Ohio
43224-1329. Ron in Chardon, Ohio.- You need a carrier that fits under the seat to bring birds on the plane.
Also you must book the birds beforehand. The cost is usually 50.00. The
plane only take 2 animals per flight (dog,cat,birds,etc). You can send them
as cargo on the same flight but that also you must book. If the inside of
the plane is booked they charge 50.00 also for cargo.Hope this helps
Heather- For your information it costs money to take doves with you on an airline
flight. My daughter spent $120 round trip bring her pet ringneck home
with her from Kentucky to Florida on Christmas vacation. She also had to buy
an airline approved box that would fit under the seat in front of her for $19
or so (I think). She was concerned about the bird being loud but she
provided him with some artifical eggs and that kept the bird quiet. For
spring break she is flying on a a different airline and the cost is $100
round trip but now she had to obtain a state health cirtificate from a vet.
I am not sure what the cost of that is yet.Helen (in Florida)- the only SAFE way to ship birds IS 1. USE APPROVED SHIPPING BOXES ONLY,
AND USE US EXPRESS MAIL SERVICE , I HAVE SHIPPED BIRDS TO MANY PLACE IN THE
U.S. AND HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, RON IN TOLEDO- Jeff, The web site for Smith Poultry And Game Bird Supplies is www.Poultry
Supplies.com , you can order the catalog over the Internet and they will mail
it free of charge.
I thought you had mentioned something about the catalog some time last year.
Any body needing feeders, waterers, bands, etc., should order their catalog.
It contains shipping charts and UPS rates for all zones. The catalog contains
32 pages
and gives good descriptions of all items.
Russ
- I have an m dove that also hangs around the kitchen sink when I am making
supper. The other day while I was washing left over dishes the bird started
pacing back and forth almost frantically. I turned to get something form the
refrigerator and their was a big splash. The dove landed in a cereal bowl that
was full of water (in the sink) and quickly went to town spraying water all over
the kitchen and turning herself into a drowned rat. When she finally agreed to
get out of the water and the sink she was shaking with cold. So I got out my
hair dryer and aimed it at her and in five minutes she looked (and felt?) like
new. Glad the bowl had clean water in it...- The other thing she likes to do is to come running when I am spraying my plants
with water. She will get between me and the plant and raised one wing straight
up and back to catch the water and she will stay that way as long as I spray
her. If I stop she turned around and lifts the other wing straight up. In the
winter this also requires hair dryer action.
- Some I've seen show that they can be very smart, My dove will attack the sink
> when I'm doing dishes if she is inclined to have a bath. She hates a bath
> when it's MY idea, but has a thing about the sink when I am doing dishes.( Of
> course, I stop doing dishes and she always gets her way.- As with most colors in any specie -- it appears in an offspring & then it is
bred back to the parents etc to "set" the color. No, there has not been a
fertile hybrid with the DD. There is a zebra/DD in New Zealand but is a mule
(cannot reproduce) -- it looks just as it sounds a mixture of DD & Zebra -
with the striping of zebra dominant. It was a chance occurrence & never was
repeated.Same thing in RN - once the wild color was introduced in the 1950s (which was
obtained from an importation of the ancestor of the RN (S risoria) new colors
began to appear (no hybridization to reproduce any color) -- then in 1986 (in
Canada & the US the Tangerine appeared (color was developed in Europe &
imported into Canada) & more new colors appeared. Again no hybridization was
done to get new colors.Same thing with the "white" Bengal Tiger - a dilute appeared & was quickly
bred into the normal color. Same thing with the Indian & Quaker parakeets --
a color mutation appeared in pure stock & from there it was bred back to set
the color & then new colors are bred for.All the colors in Cockatiels & Parakeets came from color mutations which
appeared in flocks.One does not need to hybridize to obtain a new color (which is seldom done)John Pire
Hi! I have been raising buttons for about a year and they are really easy
to raise. The best thing to start them on is Game Chick starter feed. It
is ground fine, so they don't have any problems eating it. The main thing is
to be sure they are drinking and can not drown in their water. Also for the
first week they should be kept at 95 - 100 degrees and then drop the temp
about 5 degrees a week.Hope this helps!!
I have never seen a two week old RN which was getting its neck ring (any
>color). Two weeks old is not old enough to answer the question you posed (at
>least for me). DR Miller might be able to help.
>Can you post a picture of these white RN? White RN do not have the "plain
>old" RN eyes. They are usually red -- an albino even when the eyes do open
>are PINK.
>John Pire
>TX...........Correct John: The neck ring is not diagnosable until much older. On some
"squeakers" one cannot tell about the neck ring until 7-8 week of age. But
usually earlier on (4 weeks) shows some neck ring effect on the sides of
the neck.
The white ringnecks have eyes turning to gray from "pink" about 2-3 weeks
of age. The gray turns to the more adult "orange" progressively.
...wjm- DR Miller, question, I have a pied paired to a wild type, the hen (wild
type)
>has been proven not to carry the pied gene (I followed your earlier advice).
>
>The young from this pairing -- could be what: none show the pied gene; both
>sexes can carry the pied gene hidden or something else.
>
>To produce the pied -- then I would have to pair the young with a known pied
>or a carrier of pied?
>
>Thanks for your advice.
>John Pire
>TX..............Hi John: Yes, all the young (both sexes) from this pairing will not show
pied, but will carry it( i.e. be heterozygous). Of course, the parents
MIGHT carry other recessive colors.
To produce pied then, mate the offspring to a pied to get pied in 1/2 the
offspring. This is a "testcross". Another pied carrier as a mate to these
would yield 1/4 of the offspring pied. This is equivalent to an F2 in
genetic family data. ...wjm- This morning when I checked my diamond doves there was
> an egg in the nest.The next egg should appear in about a day.> Is there any way to mark the egg
> so I know it was the first to be laid?Very very carefully "x" it with a soft graphite pencil. They are still
called lead pencils. Not to worry, not lead anymore.> Also about how
> long after the first egg will the second be laid?Oops answered this already, about a day.> How> long after that will they hatch?Incubation is about 14 days.> This is HER first;
> but Dan is a proven breeder.If it is her first set of eggs there is a large possibility that they will
not be fertile. It sometimes take a new pairing 2-3 tries to get it right.
Candle the eggs at 4-5 days. Hold them up to a bright light, if veins are
see\n then they are fertile. Do not let the eggs get wet or wash them off,
etc. This will kill the embryos most likely.> Will he help her brood
> the egg?Yes, well kind of. "As in a lot of males," he doesn't pitch in near as much
as she does. He should sit from mid morning to about mid afternoon with the
hen doing the longer hours.> What do I need to put in the cage with them
> besides seed, and water?Fresh seed mix and fresh water, mix of fortified "red" salt and oyster
shells cround fine, cuttlefish bone and I feed some form of soft food a few
times a week, either hard boiled eggs crushed shells and all or cornbread.
Of coarse this feeding set up is only my opinion and one that I use. There
are many opinions and variations out there.- > when you ship, you hve protection over the air holes, too. this lessens what
> they are subject too, including temperature changes. cape doves are just as
> sensitive, if not more so.Yes I do put a layer inside of the holes. It protects from small objects blowing or entering
the holes and also a filter of sorts to the air. I believe it does help regulate the temp
some by reducing the draft of rapid air circulation.As to the Cape doves, they are very much more sensitive to stresses and changes. Capes like
it much warmer than most other of my doves. Direct, hot sun for them to be happy and
breeding. If they get chilled it can be very bad, especially for the hens. Also, very
important, when moved to a new cage, it seems they have a harder time adjusting to a
different location of food and water and will go light and suffer in the beginning. I try to
supply the same type containers that they were used to and also provide a few extra locations
for water around the cage or flight in the beginning, slowly moving them all closer to where
the final feed and water station will be. I do this for the first week or so and I don't
suffer the problems others have seen. Hope this helps.
Jeff- A good basic Ornithology book is:
Manual of Ornithology, Avian Structure & Function
by, NS Proctor & PJ Lynch
1993, Yale University
Easy to read and understand but covers about everything you would want to
know.Jeff
My husband is a retired Maine Game Warden. He suggested that if you have
problems with predatory birds (owls, hawks, herons, etc.) that you set some
poles at various heights all the way around the permeter, approximately 6'
apart (they don't have to be big poles). Tie 20 lb or heavier monofilament
fishing line between the poles in a crisscross pattern so that they are
taut. The birds can't see it but when they swoop down to prey upon your
birds or fishpond they will strike it and it will disrupt their flight.
After a few tries they will give up because they can't see it but keep
hitting it. This has a distinct advantage of being perfectly legal, whereas
the pole trap isn't.Pollie